Just thought of this

I think that perhaps we as believers should either reconsider our approach or at least include a disclaimer...
Personally, I have no opinion of the choices others make in their lives.  I do however have a responsibility to proclaim the Gospel message.  I also feel I should not be made to feel apologetic for reminding folks what God says.  To be honest, in light of who God is and what he can do.  It is really more like a public service announcement, i.e. I'm doing them a favor regardless of how they feel about it.
It really makes me think of a sinking ship.  I feel responsible to let passengers know they need to evacuate the sinking ship, but they angrily tell  me not to tell them what to do.
So hate me for trying to do you a favor.
I think sometimes we take such things personally, or we become like pharisees and consider that we are somehow better that anyone else.  The truth is that we simply have an accurate perspective about eternal matters.
When we see ourselves properly, and we are hated for our message, I will try to remember what Jesus said, They will hate you because they hate me.

Tantamount

Re: Paradoxy

posted by EDDIE SLUSSER (you)

Aug 29, 2014, 4:20 AM   

• S

Hi Millee,

My Comments were indirectly addressing the overall thesis of the course.  I have personally struggled with this course because of its point of view.  I understand that everyone is free to decide for themselves what they believe, but it has been difficult, yet not impossible, to appreciate the philosophical perspective of the course because of its overbearing assertion that the biblical perspective, to which I strongly hold, is myth.  There is altogether no consideration for the possibility of a reality other than the secular humanism perspective.  In my humble opinion, this is a self defeating truth claim.  I probably do not make sense, and while I have enjoyed a great deal of what the course offers and how it approaches the impact and benefit to society of myths, I believe it is greatly lacking in not addressing the possibility of the other perspective.  Finally, the video itself has great input, but it also reflects the overall shortcoming I mentioned.

• Comment on Aug 30, 2014, 1:35 PM

  

  Re: Paradoxy

  posted by JUSTIN xxxxxxxK

  Aug 30, 2014, 1:35 PM   

  I can see how this course can be very challenging to those with strongly held religious beliefs, because you are exposed to so many similar stories from different cultures.  Maybe you were told that these cultures did not contain the truth, and that your religion alone contains the truth.  But I think people might be missing the point of this class when the study material lumps the stories of the Christian religion (which appears to be a very common and touchy subject in this class) as part of myth.  I do not believe the material writes off ANY religion as "false" whatsoever.  They may be call it "myth", but that does not mean they are false.  The way you resist calling the "biblical perspective" myth is exactly the same, I would imagine, as any other believer of a different religion would be.  All myth contains truth no matter what culture, and like you said, people are free to decide what to believe.

  • Comment on Aug 30, 2014, 8:25 PM

    

    Re: Truth: Class, Justin, Eddie, and Millee

    posted by Harold xxxxt

    Aug 30, 2014, 8:25 PM   

    Justin, Eddie, and Millee: your discussion has brought many thoughtful responses.  I have a hard time viewing the stories of my religion as myth because I believe they are history.  I would never claim a religion nor follow the god of a religion that is based on false narratives; to do so is an exercise in futility.  A religion based on false narratives is not a religion but a philosophy.  To believe all religions as equally true is to deem that all stories in each religion are mostly allegorical and were only penned to teach us humans moral lessons; this renders all religions as an organized philosophy.

    
    

    If humans did not believe myth stories were true, would we have religion (why)?

    • Comment on Aug 30, 2014, 10:46 PM

      

      Re: Truth: Class, Justin, Eddie, and Millee

      posted by EDDIE SLUSSER (you)

      Aug 30, 2014, 10:46 PM   

      Hi Harold,

      Your response is much better than mine.  I have a slightly more specific response, but I am not so certain I will post one.  I am not certain that it will serve its purpose as well as yours has.  I am thinking through your question, but I am not sure how to approach it.  If you will humor me, I will let my typing help me through the process of answering.  I have read testimonials from former Muslims who said they felt as if their religion was hollow with nothing to offer that was true.  In that regard, I would have to say that under coercion or other social pressures, one could participate in a religion which he or she did not believe.  For those who were involuntary human sacrifices, I would assume they did not want to participate, but did not really have a choice.  In these cases, there are some who do not believe in their own religion, but others would have to believe in order for the religion to exist.

  • Comment on Aug 30, 2014, 11:37 PM

    

    Re: Paradoxy

    posted by EDDIE SLUSSER (you)

    Aug 30, 2014, 11:37 PM   

    Hi Justin,

    Thanks for your kind consideration in response to my post.  While I can appreciate your observations, they do not accurately reflect my perspective.  With your kind permission, I would like to clarify myself, if not for your sake, certainly for mine.  I will not include the portion of my response which Harold has already discussed in his response, so please consider his post as well.  While there are certain truths upon which most religions would agree, for example, the night sky is full of stars which we can not accurately count, many religions, if not religious sects, hold to certain truth claims that are not shared by any other.  This is not all inclusive, but many fall into this category.  This does not bother me whatsoever.  I am fine with comparing different beliefs or explaining how they are similar.  In fact, I like to use the myriad of flood and origin myths as evidence to validate the facts of my faith to humanists.  I believe your primary argument regarding my complaint of the course is the matter with which I take exception.  While I do not condemn you for not sharing my beliefs, and I am not foolhardy enough to consider you to be open minded to examining the evidence, I do feel vindicated in at least clarifying my original statement.  According to Merriam-Webster Online (2014), "Myth is an idea or story that is believed by many people but that is not true."  So, yes, the assertion presented by this course is that my beliefs are not true.  More importantly, the assertion of this course is to claim the belief that God can not exist to be true exclusively.  This may not make much sense, but to say God does not exist is just as much a religious belief as to claim that God does exist.  I like to call this religion humanism.  I do not want to take your time to present my case of this particular question.

    However, even on this point I am not disappointed the most.  My key complaint is my concern, founded or unfounded, that I am being asked to accept and agree with the religious claims, myth if you will, of this course and its materials.  For me this is tantamount to recanting my faith.  You may or may not be aware that millions of Christians have lost their lives simply because they were Christians.  Many of them because they would not recant their beliefs, and many of the executions were carried out by the Roman Catholic Church.  

    Please understand that I am working through this course and am very thankful to have the latitude to assert my perspective in the discussions.  I simply commented that under the said conditions, this course has been very difficult for me.  I took so many words because my fewer words did not seem to clarify.  If you have gotten this far in my post, I thank you for hanging in there, and I hope that I have better explained what I said earlier.

    
    Myth. (2014). In Dictionary and Thesaurus - Merriam-Webster Online. Retrieved from http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/myth

  
  
• I am so glad this course is done...

??Opening Arguments??

I suppose the days of me sitting idly by while others maliciously or innocently commit sacrilege are over.  I may be in error for taking such a stand, but I take great offense.... no I'm just sick and tired of how people are so in your face Christian bashers.  "Just don't cram your religion down people's throats"... well, to that I say, don't dictate to me what I should and shouldn't believe about sharing my faith...

Anyway, this just happened, and I thought I would post it...
btw, this young lady mentioned in another post that she has a "wife".  That would clarify the reference to Romans.

Any readers who care to comment, go ahead... at least I will know that bots aren't the only ones reading

Re: Mythological Significance

posted by JENNIFER xxxN

Aug 30, 2014, 2:38 PM   

Comments removed by request... In summary, Jennifer stated the Bible was written by a rabbi and eventually gained popularity.  For others like Jennifer who take offense I would say that it is hypocritical to point a finger at me for not accepting your life choices, but not wanting me to express my views. 

Re: Mythological Significance

posted by EDDIE SLUSSER (you)

Aug 30, 2014, 7:25 PM   

I may be wrong, but you seem to contradict yourself.  First I must interject that I am not ignoring the myths that have foundations on historical events, for example, theoretically, there could have been a Trojan war that was embellished into what we know today as the myth or legend.  In modern circles, "group think" is a significant source for many types of productions.  I can not imagine that ancient myths were developed as a group project.  So, of course there was an individual origin of many myths, some of which I imagine were early forms of literary works.  I suppose the real question is, "How is significance determined or defined?"  Personally, I have many places, objects, etcetera which hold great significance for me.  I do not however expect or anticipate any of them to hold significance for anyone else.  Regarding your comments of the Bible, I will humbly submit that your facts are simply inaccurate.  Feel free to express your views on the topic; just do not be surprised when I do the same. One example is my referring you to the first chapter of Romans.  If that does not disturb you, then I suppose it describes you well; however, if it does disturb you, I suggest it is evidence that there is truth to what I have mentioned in my previous posts.  At any rate, I only hoped to mention that your point does not contradict the point which I made previously.  By the way, great job on finishing strong in this course.  

http://reallyinsertquestionmarkhere.blogspot.com/

Paradoxy

Comments after watching a video stating that man needs myths to answer the great questions of life.  Man needs to have more out of life than just birth, life, and death.

Here was my reply


This video would be funny if it were not so sad.  Throughout the video, we are presented with man's timeless need for more than birth, life, and death.  Again, we see the evidence and the argument for things eternal even though it is given as myth.  This perspective of myth is itself a myth.  The denial of God's existence in light of the empirical evidence demonstrates once again that faith is a choice.  One can choose to accept the evidence at face value and believe that the universe was created by design, or one can choose to presume a forgone conclusion that "...there is no God" (Psalm 53:1 Authorized Version) and then explain away the evidence.  So what belief is so strong that a man will hold to it though it cost him his life?  For 2000 years, Christians have been forced to choose to turn from their faith or choose to be put to death.  John Foxe's Book of Martyrs lists only a small percentage of all the multiple thousands who have elected death over denying their Saviour.  Around the world, everyday, believers suffer for their faith.  I dare say that they have offered additional evidence of what has been repeatedly and erroneously touted as myth throughout this course.  I have an additional solace knowing that the time will come when all doubts will be removed as we meet our Maker.

General Revelation

Here is a pasted conversation I just submitted and thought it would be fitting to publish here as well.  Enjoy...
btw, just had a pot of oolong.. mmm mmm

Eddie, you have pondered this topic thoroughly and the following comment is insightful: "Instead of giving a list of theories, I will simply say that faith is a choice."

The Jews believed that God is apprehended through hearing and perceived through revelation.  God transcended human ability and effort in discovering Him.  Humans cannot find God through deductive and inductive reasoning; our human efforts are lacking.  If we can see God, then we can measure Him and evaluate Him; humans would determine if God measured up to their expectations.  Again, God transcends our judgments of Him; thus, we cannot see Him.  As stated before, we apprehend God through hearing, and we perceive God through revelation.  For this reason, the Jews put much value on the logos (the word): "In the beginning God said . . ."   Consequently, faith comes by hearing.

How would you explain a person who believes without seeing?

Hi Harold,

Thank you so much for humoring me and giving me continued opportunity to present some important truths.  I can not answer your question sufficiently without referring to scripture, so I hope you will bear with me as I give a few in order to answer your question.  As you mentioned, and even as I am referencing, we have a written record of God’s message.  Even as the New Testament was being written, we are given how God’s message was received, “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds” (Hebrews 1:1-2 Authorized Version).  From visions and dreams to an audible voice and even stone tablets, we have God’s message sent to men.  The prophets preface again and again, “Thus saith the LORD…”  There is however, an older message, “God exists, and God is marvelous.”  This message is seen in the grandeur of the universe. "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork." (Psalm 19:1 Authorized Version)  This message is called general revelation.  This is something we can see.  Man’s innate tendency toward worship is by design and is a clue as to the origin of myths.  God places a spark of spiritual light and sight in every man. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ... In him was life; and the life was the light of men. ... There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world." (John 1:1, 4, 6-9 Authorized Version) We are given witnesses and when we choose to trust and believe their testimony it is faith.  Man then has two responses to the light they have seen.  One is to seek God. "Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious [These are the Greeks who worshipped the olympian gods]. For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; ... That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:" "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." (Acts 17:22-24, 27; Hebrews 11:6 Authorized Version) The other response is to reject this light and choose to believe a different claim of truth. "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools," (Romans 1:18-22 Authorized Version).  While I do not know if my explanation is a clear explanation, I trust that it is sufficient to answer the question.

Beware the bots who say +1

Just a quick note:
Is it just me or are there bots on Blogger that view posts and/or +1 them?
Not sure what that would mean other than I was beginning to think that someone was actually reading;
good times..

Inflatable Armies

I have been so stuck on a title... not sure if there will be one... I even found this while trying to think of a title
http://www.kammerl.de/ascii/AsciiStereo.php

I digress..
As much as academia, media, and entertainment denies God, I am very pleased to find a growing majority of professing believers.  The smoke screen reminds me of the deception operations of world war ii with inflatable armies.
In those times when it appears darkness begins to prevail, I think back to Psalm 2.  Someday, (at God's own choosing) not only will God have the last word, but he will mock those who shake fists at Him.
how insignificant
how futile
verse 1
Dr. McGee refers to verse 7 as a reference to Christ's resurrection.
So here's to all you scoffers,
The Ninevites saw their need to confess before God.  You will be held to a greater condemnation.
go ahead, get mad, do your worst.
Sometimes I think that their anger is from frustration of their frustrated efforts.
Hypocrites!!
There is still time... kiss the Son, if you know what's good for you...
Oh foolish and blind

Heb 2:3 KJV - How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard [him];

Psa 2:1-12 KJV - 1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, [saying], 3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. 4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. 5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. 6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give [thee] the heathen [for] thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth [for] thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. 10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. 11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish [from] the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed [are] all they that put their trust in him.

Wow, this is getting good

in response to a question posted by a classmate... but before that,
I can't be sure, but the blog says that several of these posts have been viewed?
I never expected an audience, but I hope you find it worth reading...

Re: Dissolution of the World in Visnu: Class and Rachelle

posted by zzzzz

Aug 06, 2014, 7:27 PM

Here lies a question for me...I understand that mythology is based on historical events, and can be described in different allegories, but looking at the way each culture believes, I see so many similarities in a bunch of religions, especially when we talk about Vishnu.  

The apocalypse according to Vishnu will be the harbinger of death and destruction. The tenth and the final incarnation of Lord Vishnu is supposed to be called Kalki. He will be the apocalyptic horse rider who will bring the close to the existing Kali Yuga.  They also uphold some basic principles that eventually, good reins victorious over evil. To end the evil, the Hindu Gods take avatars or incarnations in human or animal forms.  

Can we place the characters in the myths/stories with Christian names and events?  Is this where the truth lies?  Can we always leave it open to interpretation? Do you all see where my thought process is going?  

c

Hi zzzzz,

First, you must ask yourself if you are seeking truth or are you looking for academic understanding.  If you seek academic understanding, then personal interpretation and the effective expression of it stands on its own merits.  If you are seeking truth, then there opens many more avenues to consider and greater importance.  So, can we know truth? I think this is a matter of observing the world of nature around us and above us.  Ask yourself, did all this come about naturally, or was there a first cause?  It is hard to walk away from that question without the tainting of outside influence, but if you simply set all previous notions aside and consider the complexity of the simplest life form and the mathematical probability of random spontaneous generation, it might actually be more plausible to conclude that there is a first cause beyond our ability to ever gain sufficient understanding or explaining.  For the sake of argument, if there is a creator, is it possible he would have a reason for creating?  If the creator wanted to communicate with his creation, is it possible he has the means to do so?  If the creator sent a message to his creation, is it possible he has the means to record and preserve that communication for later generations? Finally, if all these things are possible, and you are seeking truth, it is all important for determining where and how that truth may be found.  

One final thought to consider.  Don’t you find it a little peculiar that all around the world, there is a myth of destruction by a flood?  Vesuvius gives another means of destruction, so why are there not myths of a plethora of causes for disaster?  Is this a hint that there may be more truth to this myth than we are willing to cross the geology professor over?  Just a little food for thought, hope it helps. (unless it’s all about the grade, hmm?)

Well, they did ask

So part of my college is to participate in discussions... and answer discussion questions...
This week's topic is creation, the flood, afterlife, and apocalypse.  I liked my answer to the question so much I decided to post it here... enjoy:

What cultural purposes does the creation of myth serve?

This question appears to have a possible dual meaning.  It may have the meaning of myth is created, but in light of this week’s topic, I am led to believe it may also mean creation is myth.  I cannot presume to determine which rendition is intended, so I will attempt to answer both questions.  Myth does not have a design or purpose, but rather an impact on culture.  Purpose gives the impression that it was intended to have a global, from the perspective of its founders, impact.  Myth has its roots in theories of creation or origin of the universe.  There is within the soul a quest to understand from where it began.  Theories grow into stories, and stories are shared with friends and family.  These stories lose the memory of once being theories and become perpetuated as fact without proof. And so it is that myths are born and shape or at least reflect the norms and values of a culture.

The converse is much like the former, but to ask ‘what cultural purposes does the myth of creation serve?’ asserts that creation is myth, which can not be proven, and in turn takes a theory and purposes to perpetuate it into a fact.  This is exactly how myths are born and is therefore a self defeating question.  Secondly, a culture may have a purpose of making a myth out of creation in order to perpetuate said culture and dismantle the belief of creation within that culture.  Throughout this course, creation is condemned as a fairy tale.  I do not presume to attempt to persuade or proselytize.  I simply assert the validity of my observations.  

Ultimately, I can not be certain which reading of the question was intended.  I can only hope that in providing answers to both, the question intended was answered.

The Reply

The only pearls I will offer as a response.

The Watchmaker 

Very Brief Commentary

So I'm working toward a B.A. ... The current course is about mythology.  The assertion that the Bible is simply a collection of myths distresses me greatly; so much so that I have taken a short break to mention it here.  Ps 2 would be very appropriate, but I hope to have more time to spend on that post...
There is much to be said, to wit, the debate has raged on since Genesis chapter 3.  It is not my debate to win or lose.  Prayer is my best argument today.  Who can turn the hearts of men better than our Lord?  How can we expect help better than by asking?  Pray for wisdom. Pray for boldness.  Pray for opportunity, and pray for open minds, hearts, and eyes.

[2Co 4:4 KJV] 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

amen brother Paul

A good place to start

[1Jo 3:1 KJV] 1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

I don't know if I will ever find the perfect time, so hold on to your 3-D glasses... here we go.

This was one of those sledge hammer in the chest moments. 
I love the parts of the Bible that say "Behold".  Ya know, it's the 1611 version of Look, you're not going to want to miss this...
how can you compare this kind of love that we should be called the sons of God.  This is the time to pause and think of who God is...
something to chew on a while...
I hope to look at Psalm 2 soon (that's pretty much a note to self, thanks for tolerating my forgetfulness)